On the flip side, Tom Hiddleston’s Loki and Sophia Di Martino’s Sylvie are approached by a literal John Doe in He Who Remains very early in the finale (eschewing the MCU’s own trop of villains appearing in post-credit scenes), after which he had a dogmatic conversation with them that ends in the two variants facing a tragic and vengeful dilemma that ends in Sylvie killing He Who Remains, and everyone in the Multiverse is worse off for it.
In Se7en, John Doe makes his trope-eschewing arrival earlier in the narrative than audiences expected and has dogmatic conversations with Morgan Freeman’s Det.
David Mills ahead of forcing one of them into a tragic and vengeful dilemma that ends with the antagonist dead and no one being any better for it.